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The IX stands for Iridium

 

Poor luck with those I won't run them if they give them to me and they are still the design that fouls out and no way in hell you need an 8 with only 10psi, maybe when you hit 25 or 30 ok. With an idle AFR of 16 and an 8 for a plug the motor will barely idle its just too cold and you can't correct lean with a cooler plug and lean is what you got.

 

I still suspect your injectors, likely the primary since your boost numbers seem alright. You tried another one or only have the one primary to use?

 

There have been some distributors that the mechanical weights stick on and cause timing to be too far advanced when the rpms come down this can cause high EGTs has anyone messed with the springs in the distributor? Maybe one came off or broke?

 

You hooked to where for seeing this boost gauge is reading? What is your vacuum at idle by the way?

 

To me the coolant isn't too hot but the EGTs are since you say the manifold is glowing and this in turn causes coolant temps. to increase.

 

Air fuel is amount of fuel and how long its allowed to burn. In other words injectors and ignition timing if you think that the motor is fine and the boost level is accurate and the exhaust isn't clogged up.

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Over the years that I have been modding these cars it is best to own three sets of Spark Plugs: 6s,7s and 8s. No two cars run alike even with the same set up. Experimentation with Spark plugs is sometimes needed if your running too lean or too rich. What do the 6s look like? You can learn a lot about how your engine is running by just reading your Spark plugs.If you have the ability to adjust the fuel flow, increase it by 1 psi, and re-read your A/F ratios.

 

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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The IX stands for Iridium

 

Poor luck with those I won't run them if they give them to me and they are still the design that fouls out and no way in hell you need an 8 with only 10psi, maybe when you hit 25 or 30 ok. With an idle AFR of 16 and an 8 for a plug the motor will barely idle its just too cold and you can't correct lean with a cooler plug and lean is what you got.

 

I still suspect your injectors, likely the primary since your boost numbers seem alright. You tried another one or only have the one primary to use?

 

There have been some distributors that the mechanical weights stick on and cause timing to be too far advanced when the rpms come down this can cause high EGTs has anyone messed with the springs in the distributor? Maybe one came off or broke?

 

You hooked to where for seeing this boost gauge is reading? What is your vacuum at idle by the way?

 

To me the coolant isn't too hot but the EGTs are since you say the manifold is glowing and this in turn causes coolant temps. to increase.

 

Air fuel is amount of fuel and how long its allowed to burn. In other words injectors and ignition timing if you think that the motor is fine and the boost level is accurate and the exhaust isn't clogged up.

the IX were in my original engine when i got it, they were the only other plugs i could find. i do have a set of BPR7e?-11 i can try

i have 3 more primarys i can try

this is the distributor i ran in my old engine with no glowing manifold (dont know afr since wideband wasnt installed), the distributor the engine cam with must have been mad, as we cant get the timing any closer than 6d btdc with it

 

at the time i had it on the egr nipple before the throttle plate, where it reads boost only, when i rebuilt the TB i hooked it to the middle nipple, middle nipple reads 7psi where the outside reads 10.5psi

i cant get my gauge to read vacuum for some reason.

cats are gutted, and alot of flow from exhaust

 

Over the years that I have been modding these cars it is best to own three sets of Spark Plugs: 6s,7s and 8s. No two cars run alike even with the same set up. Experimentation with Spark plugs is sometimes needed if your running too lean or too rich. What do the 6s look like? You can learn a lot about how your engine is running by just reading your Spark plugs.If you have the ability to adjust the fuel flow, increase it by 1 psi, and re-read your A/F ratios.

 

Bill

the bpr6's were almost white, which to carbs are lean

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the IX were in my original engine when i got it, they were the only other plugs i could find. i do have a set of BPR7e?-11 i can try

i have 3 more primarys i can try

this is the distributor i ran in my old engine with no glowing manifold (dont know afr since wideband wasnt installed), the distributor the engine cam with must have been mad, as we cant get the timing any closer than 6d btdc with it

 

at the time i had it on the egr nipple before the throttle plate, where it reads boost only, when i rebuilt the TB i hooked it to the middle nipple, middle nipple reads 7psi where the outside reads 10.5psi

i cant get my gauge to read vacuum for some reason.

cats are gutted, and alot of flow from exhaust

 

 

the bpr6's were almost white, which to carbs are lean

 

Same with our cars. Too hot a plug can cause overheating as can incorrect timing. Try the 7s and read them or try the 8s.If you run the car at high speeds a lot, try the 8s.I have my Boost Gauge spliced into the hose below the row of three: "You want the lowest source of vacuum for the most accurate vacuum reading"

 

Good Luck,

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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Same with our cars. Too hot a plug can cause overheating as can incorrect timing. Try the 7s and read them or try the 8s.If you run the car at high speeds a lot, try the 8s.I have my Boost Gauge spliced into the hose below the row of three: "You want the lowest source of vacuum for the most accurate vacuum reading"

 

Good Luck,

Bill

ive had it to 135 on the old motor, but generally speaking i only run it up to 100

 

the heater controls?

 

ok ill throw the bpr7's in tomorrow and see what they show. ill try to find my bur7's. theres still in my bpr6 box where ever i put it

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This is sounding like something different now.

 

What does your boost gauge read with the motor off?

Idling?

Where is the hose for it hooked to?

Was this gauge dropped on the floor?

Was it new? Brand?

 

Do you have a boost controller? Disconnect it, remove it from the hose and put it back just a hose from the wastegate actuator to the intercooler plumbing.

 

Are you looking at the stock boost gauge for any of these numbers?

 

What port is the vac. adv. on?

You have any other hoses on the TB like EGR or vent hoses for fuel vapor or thermovalve or secondary air cleaner?

 

How did you compare the two ports for boost and get different numbers?

 

You should get a vacuum gauge, about 5-10.00 and put it on the forward most port of those three in a row on your throttlebody. Should be none at idle then with slight opening of throttle you will see some vacuum.

 

On the middle port you see vacuum while idling and will go away as throttle is opened.

 

You only need three hoses on this motor for it to run, one from the front port to your vac. adv., one to the fuel pressure regulator and one from the wastegate actuator to the intercooler plumbing. How many do you have and are they connected this way?

 

Boost numbers on throttlebody ports will not be the same if one is above or near the throttleplate and the other isn't unless the throttle is wide open. Boost will show on the forward port if the throttle is part open but you might have none on the lower port in the manifold, You could have 10psi on the front port and 5 on the bottom it all depends on engine rpms and throttle plate position. The engine is sucking air and the throttleplate is a door, open the door and some boost comes in but all those ports do not ever match unless the door is all the way open.

 

Its possible for passages in the throttlebody to be clogged up. When you rebuilt it did you use compressed air and blow them all out and what kind of sealant did you use when you put the paper gasket back in? If you have other hoses than the three I stated, remove all of them except those three. Not seeing vacuum on your boost gauge is a problem. It could be the gauge or the passage clogged and if one is clogged so may be another. Maybe your FPR passage is blocked and you are not getting any extra fuel pressure.

 

Did you unplug the knock sensor and see if timing changes yet? Do you have a timing light?

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/distri1.jpg

Edited by Indiana
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See, you have all kinds of advice with trying to solve your problem. And it's free.Try them all. One will most likely fix it. One, or others posting help have most likely experienced the same problem your having. One way, by a explanation from one member might not be the way it gets fixed. But with combined experiences with troubleshooting or personal events that happened, you might be able to fix it.We are not wizards...We can only try to steer you in the right direction.

 

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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This is sounding like something different now.

 

What does your boost gauge read with the motor off?

Idling?

Where is the hose for it hooked to?

Was this gauge dropped on the floor?

Was it new? Brand?

 

Do you have a boost controller? Disconnect it, remove it from the hose and put it back just a hose from the wastegate actuator to the intercooler plumbing.

 

Are you looking at the stock boost gauge for any of these numbers?

 

What port is the vac. adv. on?

You have any other hoses on the TB like EGR or vent hoses for fuel vapor or thermovalve or secondary air cleaner?

 

How did you compare the two ports for boost and get different numbers?

 

You should get a vacuum gauge, about 5-10.00 and put it on the forward most port of those three in a row on your throttlebody. Should be none at idle then with slight opening of throttle you will see some vacuum.

 

On the middle port you see vacuum while idling and will go away as throttle is opened.

 

You only need three hoses on this motor for it to run, one from the front port to your vac. adv., one to the fuel pressure regulator and one from the wastegate actuator to the intercooler plumbing. How many do you have and are they connected this way?

 

Boost numbers on throttlebody ports will not be the same if one is above or near the throttleplate and the other isn't unless the throttle is wide open. Boost will show on the forward port if the throttle is part open but you might have none on the lower port in the manifold, You could have 10psi on the front port and 5 on the bottom it all depends on engine rpms and throttle plate position. The engine is sucking air and the throttleplate is a door, open the door and some boost comes in but all those ports do not ever match unless the door is all the way open.

 

Its possible for passages in the throttlebody to be clogged up. When you rebuilt it did you use compressed air and blow them all out and what kind of sealant did you use when you put the paper gasket back in? If you have other hoses than the three I stated, remove all of them except those three. Not seeing vacuum on your boost gauge is a problem. It could be the gauge or the passage clogged and if one is clogged so may be another. Maybe your FPR passage is blocked and you are not getting any extra fuel pressure.

 

Did you unplug the knock sensor and see if timing changes yet? Do you have a timing light?

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/distri1.jpg

yes i have dropped it before and had to disassemble it and recalibrate it

engine off reads .5+

idling -2 to 0

at the moment of these numbers, middle port of the 3

wasnt new, i would have to go look at brand

 

no boost controller, i installed a 3 port actuator and only have 1 line connected (other blocked)

vac advance is on first port, BOV on 3rd port, wastegate on intake pipe. no emissions crap. throttle plate nipple blocked

yes i cleaned every inch of the TB when i rebuild it, no blocked passages

vac advance has no vac at idle but changes as soon as you crack throttle

middle port my gauge is currently hooked to, normally i had the gauge on the throttleplate nipple

 

you are correct on boost change. the throttleplate nipple reads 11 (10.5 with the +.5) and the middle port reads 7-8

i think i need a new gauge, no i never go by the dash gauge since it changes with easch maf i try lol

 

i didnt put any sealant on the gasket when i rebuilt it

i havent tried knock sensor since i have to borrow neigboors jack to get car off ground, i dont have a jack that fits under car

 

 

btw, i changed both of my injectors, and idles at an almost even 15.3-15.6 with occasional 16. if i nail the gas it doesnt have that slight hesitation at the first hit.

havent drove it yet

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Ok, I just drove the car, still has the low poer below 3k. Still cruisong at 16-17 afr seen 18 once.

Can tps adjustment cause any of this?

 

just to add, cruising at 2000 or 3000+ afr will dump to 18 and car starts to hesitate

Edited by Skullzaflare
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Ok, I just drove the car, still has the low poer below 3k. Still cruisong at 16-17 afr seen 18 once.

Can tps adjustment cause any of this?

 

just to add, cruising at 2000 or 3000+ afr will dump to 18 and car starts to hesitate

I thought I read that. You need a complete revamp of your fuel system. 16 to 17 afr on cruise is way too lean. Have you checked your injectors? Do this. Set everything back to stock. Then check your A/F readings. Seems like your injectors are either clogged, or your fuel pressure is lacking. Running lean has these symptoms: Fuel, Spark plugs, Timing, Fuel filters. What kind of A/F Gauge are you reading off of?

 

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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O.K. We're going to start from scratch. I want you to list everything you have done to your car, and I mean everything. From the time you purchased it until today.List all changes in the order that you did them. List EVERYTHING in the correct order.Also list any mods done prior to your purchasing the car. This is the best way to go about it.

 

 

 

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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1987 conquest

when i bought the car it had a slight upper engine noise, also ran about 2/3rds up the temp gauge (drove it home)

car had hardpipes

16g with 1 port wg act

bov

msd blaster 2 coil

2 oddball injectors (a primary and a B)(also have a thread on that)

next mani was glowing so i pulled all the exhaust and hollowed the secondary cat (pre was already hollow)

had alot of manifold leaks so i pulled that and restudded the head

i also attempted to clutch fan the stock radiator. i made it les than 1 mile, the fan blades curled over and diced the radiator. so i bought a new aluminum sr20 radiator and installed it, temps never went over 192 even boosting at 135mph (still no manifold glow either)

so i was tired of the engine, and threw the 3 port act on it to run 10.5psi, which without exhaust is 13lbs

 

 

at this point i bought a 88 shp parts car

i pulled a throttle body out of the car and switched it with the one on my car (shaft seals were leaking on old one, one i put on didnt leak)

i used rtv sealant and not new gaskets.

i drove the car for about another week when i got my new correct injectors in (green and black) i put those in then that night seemed i spun a bearing (i have a thread on that i believe)

also installed a 1g maf from in the parts car

 

 

last tuesday i went a picked up a new engine (88 88k miles with jetvalve and bs's) with a new clutch.

weds i installed the new engine and clutch.

car and engine is so much quieter but slower.

first thing i had issue with was a sure at idle and wouldnt go over 2k rpm. somehow timing was at 25d. tried adjusting it, couldnt get close, moved the distributor 1 tooth and the closest we could get it was 6d btdc. so we put my old distributor in, ran perfect

 

i reused my upper throttle body/injectors, turbo, turbo lines, motor mounts, vac lines, oil pressure sending unit.

new engine runs hot when you come to stop. and cruising low speeds.

manifold glows (even if you dont boost it glows a little)

got the wideband in right after new engine install, and seen afr's, along with the weird throttling the new motor has

 

 

first thing i did was flush the coolent system, it had 100% antifreeze in it

2nd thing i did was throw bpr7es-11 in it, shortly after changing to bur7ea-11 (had to order)

 

 

 

 

somewhere along in there when i got my new injectors after parts car i found out the car wont go over 4k with the maf that was in it when i got it

 

edit - woop forgot to add that at the same time as the MAF i installed a 88 ecu

Edited by Skullzaflare
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First things first. 100% antifreeze will make it run hot. A 50/50% mix of water/antifreeze will be much better. Have you done a test on your Injectors? How are you cooling the Nissan SR20 radiator? One fan or two. Timing at the correct setting is also important. 10 DEGREES BTDC. You might want to ask about installing a 1988 MAS into a 1987. I have no knowledge on that.I know that the MAS plugs are the same, but the Ignitor is different. You really didn't upgrade,If you would have installed a 1st gen MAS from a Turbo car (1990-1994 DSM) that is a upgrade. Sounds to me like your injectors are not working properly and your timing is off. Perhaps, that is why your running lean at cruise.Lack of fuel and a incorrect timing setting could be the cause. Do you have a Fuel Pressure Gauge that is accurate? If so, what is the reading at idle? Edited by Caliber308
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First things first. 100% antifreeze will make it run hot. A 50/50% mix of water/antifreeze will be much better. Have you done a test on your Injectors? How are you cooling the Nissan SR20 radiator? One fan or two. Timing at the correct setting is also important. 10 DEGREES BTDC. You might want to ask about installing a 1988 MAS into a 1987. I have no knowledge on that.I know that the MAS plugs are the same, but the Ignitor is different. You really didn't upgrade,If you would have installed a 1st gen MAS from a Turbo car (1990-1994 DSM) that is a upgrade. Sounds to me like your injectors are not working properly and your timing is off. Perhaps, that is why your running lean at cruise.Lack of fuel and timing setting could be the cause. Do you have a Fuel Pressure Gauge that is accurate? If so, what is the reading at idle?

i said i have a 1g maf? never said i had a 88 maf, i have a 88 ecu

at this very moment i have pure water in the system. the radiator has 1 16" 3200 cfm fan

i didnt have fuel issues on other engine though. eitherway, when i changed injectors earlier, it only changed idle afr a little

 

i recently removed the FR gauge, yes it was accurate autometer. idle was 38psi, full boost was 52 psi (i think ive typed that 5 times now lol)

Edited by Skullzaflare
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Get a new boost gauge or borrow one and compare. On the WG actuator, the nipple next to the one you are using on the outer part you can, the single inner one leave uncapped and open.

 

Something seems wrong with your distributor and that can be causing all of this.

 

 

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i said i have a 1g maf? never said i had a 88 maf, i have a 88 ecu

 

 

Maybe I misunderstood. I read it as you installing a 1988 MAS into the 1987. So, is the 1st gen MAS off a 1990 to 1994 turboed car (Eclipse,Laser or Talon)?? If you did the swap, you would have had to change the MAS wiring.Did you?

 

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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Get a new boost gauge or borrow one and compare. On the WG actuator, the nipple next to the one you are using on the outer part you can, the single inner one leave uncapped and open.

 

Something seems wrong with your distributor and that can be causing all of this.

your second sentence makes no sense, are you saying to hook a boost gauge to the 2nd nipple of the top 2?

 

how so? this distributor worked fine in my old motor, i had to remove the one that came in the new motor because i couldnt get timing right

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your second sentence makes no sense, are you saying to hook a boost gauge to the 2nd nipple of the top 2?

 

how so? this distributor worked fine in my old motor, i had to remove the one that came in the new motor because i couldnt get timing right

 

The Distributor Advance hose is connected to Nipple D on the Throttle body row of three. It is the first nipple towards the front of the car. Like I stated before, Splice your Boost/Vacuum hose into the port below the row of three.Look, and you will see it.Nipple E is the second port on the row of three. That port is for the EGR Valve Control Vacuum. The last port closest to the firewall is Nipple M.Secondary Air Control Vacuum. This is a good place to connect a Blow Off Valve.Indy is talking about the Waste gate, not the Throttle body ports.He knows more than I do, he is most likely correct about you problem being Distributor related with the timing being off and that in its self will lead to overheating.

 

Bill

Edited by Caliber308
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Maybe I misunderstood. I read it as you installing a 1988 MAS into the 1987. So, is the 1st gen MAS off a 1990 to 1994 turboed car (Eclipse,Laser or Talon)?? If you did the swap, you would have had to change the MAS wiring.Did you?

 

Bill

it alreadyt have the conversion when i got it

 

anything i can do to check the distributor i pulled from the engine?

Edited by Skullzaflare
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Just in case, pull off the MAF plug and look at the connector in the end of the MAF, how may pins do you see? There should be locations for 8 and one empty and then one either folded over or cut off leaving 6 that is what is in the stock harness plug just the size of stock is too short so you have to mod the connector. If there are only 6 pins and that's all there ever was in the MAF that is an n/a MAF and will not work.
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Just in case, pull off the MAF plug and look at the connector in the end of the MAF, how may pins do you see? There should be locations for 8 and one empty and then one either folded over or cut off leaving 6 that is what is in the stock harness plug just the size of stock is too short so you have to mod the connector. If there are only 6 pins and that's all there ever was in the MAF that is an n/a MAF and will not work.

i know the 1g mod lol, yes it has 7 pins with 1 bent

 

btw, im going to change knock sensors, and distributors in morning and see if theres a difference

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the knock sensor you only need to unplug but it hasn't anything to do with what is causing this its just a safety device that helps in the event that this happens but its not supposed to anyway. The distributor, you just need to pull the cap, remove the rotor and move the governor with something it should move easily and return not be hard to twist and stick.

 

You didn't say if you had a timing light or if it had an adjusting screw on the one you used. Your car seems like its running you just need to check the distributor you have. You can suck on the hose and watch the timing light then leave the hose off and rev the motor and watch the timing light both will cause timing to increase but when rpms go back down or the vacuum from you sucking on the hose is gone the timing quickly returns to base.

 

If that's working or seems to be you could check the cam timing but you'd have to remove the valve cover to do that.

 

When you had the fuel pressure gauge, where was it attached and did it have a liquid in it? I know you said the FPR was stock and you saw the fuel pressure increase from 38 to 52 but how did you see that while driving?

 

When you start the motor after its hot, does it start easily or seem to crank then jerk or hesitate then continue? Does it act the same way cold and hot on restart and the starter sound the same? On a hot motor, too much timing the starter will kick back and be harder to start and the engine crank much slower.

 

This could all just be two dirty injectors too. What's the chance you could send those off to a place like Witchhunter.com to be cleaned?

 

Do you have a compression gauge?

 

and you don't have jet valves either right?

Edited by Indiana
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last tuesday i went a picked up a new engine (88 88k miles with jetvalve and bs's) with a new clutch.

weds i installed the new engine and clutch.

 

 

 

 

OK, you pulled off the valve cover? and do you have mechanical or hydraulic rocker arms? Did you check the clearance on the jet valves? They may not be closing. Your intake valves might not be fully opening or the exhaust fully opening etc.

 

Some of this shows up in a compression check. You still have to pull the valve cover to check jet valve clearance. If the head has a stuck or broken jet valve the only way to know for sure is to loosen up the rocker assembly and pull the jet valves out and inspect them.

 

Here's what they look like

 

These are used valves, if your engine burns allot oil or has very high miles the carbon build-up could be excessive on the tips and the fuel residue collected on the stems can cause them to stick open but its take a neglected poorly running engine that cause this over time. The springs are held on with small keepers like your intake/exhaust valves.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003416.JPGhttp://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003417.JPG

 

Disassemble and clean

 

The valve you can clean on a wire wheel and the seals are just miniature versions of the intake and exhaust valve seals, the o-rings fit into a groove

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003418.JPG

 

Reassemble

 

Most gasket kits include new seals and o-rings so you can do this

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003421.JPGhttp://www.b2600turbo.com/images/IM003422.JPG

 

 

 

 

The AERA Technical Committee offers the following consideration for Chrysler

2.6L engines with repeated jet valve burning problems. This problem is most

prevalent with engines that utilize hydraulic lash compensators (HLC). Reported

failures have usually been shortly after cylinder head installation or

compensators replacement.Unless the jet valves are readjusted after the

engine has reached operating temperature, improper clearances WILL result.

The correct lash adjustment of .010 (.254mm) can only be achieved of the HLC

plunger is in its operating location. If the jet valve is adjusted before that

point, or on the bench, operating oil pressure will change the previous

clearance. Insufficient clearance may hold the jet valve off the seat and

eventually burn it.

Edited by Indiana
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ill pass on pulling them out, dont have the money this week to order a seal kit or jve

looks to be hydr, i see lifters in the rockers

 

if a valve didnt seat all the way, wouldnt that cause it to miss? something that it doesnt do

 

 

also, found out my distributors bearings were shot, also found out why the included distrib didnt work, it had been rebuilt and someone put the bottom gear on backwords

so i turned the gear and put it together with a known good knock sensor. idles at 900 and timing exactly on 10 btdc exact, doesnt jump like the other did

 

car runs alot better, pulls harder as well. though boost afrs are still 12.3-13.1, didnt see much on cruise afr. idle afr is 14.7-16

still runs warm (200)

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If the old motor was an oil burner and had been doing that for 100k miles the valves might be sticky but you said they are hydraulic lifters so what that means is, and read that notice about adjusting them that's a very true statement that caused MANY of their issues, you must check their clearance this is a maintenance thing like changing oil just you don't have to do it that often maybe every 20k miles. I bet its never been done.

 

All you do it turn the motor so the rocker is on the cam base that both valves are closed and use a feeler gauge under the jet valve adjusting screw and make sure there is clearance. If you can push the valves down and they pop back up chances are they are good and that way you know they aren't sticking. A motor that burns oil, like one that had no oil separator on it, the oil burning leaves carbon as a residue and this is what sticks them since it builds up and the shroud does keep most of that away from them but still they can get crusty. Most motors they are fine and just need to be adjusted you don't need to even replace the seals or take them apart all you need to do is remove them and then push the valve down and if the stem is all built up they need cleaned but if its just a little bit or none just put them back in.

 

The lifters now is your chance to clean them. Just using a small hard wire insert that in the tip and mash them several times under some cleaner or light oil and this is when the motor will need to be ran again before you adjust the jet valve clearance.

 

This doesn't cost any money and might take you an hour, hour and a half to clean those and look at the jet valves. If a jet valve isn't closing its letting in air/fuel mix all the time and its under boost pressures and its more air than fuel so it can cause lean issues.

 

http://www.b2600turbo.com/stock_camshaft_id.htm

 

Send out those extra injectors you have to www.witchhunter.com

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